Looking for advice about filters for my digital photo and video camera.

In the sea I get pictures that are to blue and in the lakes back home they are to green.

I use Photoshop to edit them but I wonder if filters would not be a better technique.

Your strobe should help now to get the colour back into your shots (in blue water within a few meters anyway). The other thing is to manual do white balancing. I'm not sure about green water.


Saying that the video options on my camera are limited and I'm going to try with a magic filter next week in the red sea. I'll let you know how I get on with it and may be post a few before and after clips/ shots for you..

Thanks Wookie, I always value your advice. looking forward to read on how things go for you in the red sea.

For now I will do some research on what magic filters are.

Manual/custom white balance will reduce the ambient colour down whatever it is be it blue/green/whatever. Using a filter combined with manual white balance will improve the colours even more. The density of the colour will depend on the depth a manual white balance will work to, in good clear blue water it will still work to 20m, in dark green water maybe 10m max. You will need to reset the manual white balance every metre or so in change of depth to keep the colour correction as close as possible. You can set the manual white balance by pointing your camera at the surface, it's not perfect but does work and is easy. The preferred way is to use a white slate held at 45 degrees to the surface, point your camera horizontally at the slate and set the balance. The first method works at greater depths than the preferred method.

Using a strobe will increase colour at all depths, but do not use with a filter or a manual white balance otherwise your pics will come out very colourful.

Filters are magenta for green water and amber for blue water.

Thank you for the info.

I do have one question. You say not to use white balancing or a filter with a probe because it will increase colours at depths. I don't understand, Is this not what we want?

Komodo wrote:

When I say colourful I mean very colourful. Using white balance offsets all the colours. A strobe shows you the real colours. Using a strobe and white balance will give you false colours, try it above ground. Set your white balance against something blue then take a picture, everything will look orange. Same thing will happen underwater if you use a strobe. Set white balance on something green and everything will look magenta (pink/purple). You can use this affect above water in place of colour filters.

Someone recommended to me this Photoshop tutorial. It works very well and I gave an example of one of my pictures.

www.gadling.com/2005/02/11/how-to-editing-underwater-photos/

This is before.



I wonder if there is a Photoshop expert out there that can tell me if it can also be done with videos.

This is after.

The Photoshop mod works well if they original image has some red in it i.e. it was taken reasonably shallow. Beyond 10m there isn't usually enough red for it to work too well but it still helps.

Now I'm looking to do the same with videos.

I know that color can be corrected with underwater videos using Pinnacle, so I submitted the question on there web site.

The following is there answer.

"You can jigger the white balance in Studio to boost the red wavelengths and dampen the blues or greens. Use key framing, or break a long clip into smaller ones for individual adjustments, if the color distortion varies over the course of a clip or sequence. But don't expect miracles. This approach will work to enhance snorkeler's video, or that shot near the surface. However, if your video was taken at any significant depth, or in water with lots of sediment, algae, or heaven-knows, to push the color balance very much merely creates lots of "noise."
A better correction is to install orange "blue water" or pink "green water" filters on your videocam, either as a lense filter on the camera within the marine pack, or as a clip-on outside. Few videocams have "scuba" white balance settings built in, but some P&S digicams that shoot video offer "underwater" white balance modes. The trouble with any of these methods is, of course, that the color distortion is dynamic, varying with depth and distance, plus whether the day is sunny or overcast. Below a depth of 10m or 30", there is little red light anyway, so filters or WB adjustments may simply darken your video or convert it to monochrome. That is why any serious deep sea videography involves prodigious amount of artificial lighting. Got $12k for a big 1,000 lumen strobe system? If not, you can get a small one for $1.2k. A 65 lumen Pelican LED lamp "rated to 500'," will illuminate perhaps a moray eel at arm's length. Care to try?
So the short answers are either: a) shoot shallow, b) use the editing software's color balance tools modestly, c) invest $70 or so in filters, d) invest $1k or so in lighting, or e) put that LED lamp on the end of a pole."


I will continue to search.

Komodo wrote:

Pinnacles answer is basically what I said for stills, whether it is stills or video it makes no difference. For any videos I have shot using my compact I use Pinnacles colour correction, it's quite good most of the time.

What camera are you using to shoot the videos? A stills camera or a proper video camera? I don't know of a stills camera that can shoot video with a custom white balance. You need a video camera to do that. A while ago I would have said you need to spend thousands but, the Sanyo Xacti HD2000 shoots HD video with custom white balance. Epoque make a 45m rated housing, I have the Patima 120m rated housing. Shooting using a custome white balance will only work down to 10m in green water or 15m in blue, just like with a stills camera. A filter can be used, the HD2000 housings have a 67mm thread for filters/lenses.

On my setup I use TWO Greenforce HID 100W lights with an F3 battery pack, it gives me enough light at whatever depth I go to. It's a much cheaper way of getting professional effect lighting, but still costs £1k, at least it also works as a dive light. Again, if you are using any lighting you do not use a filter or a custom white balance.

Hope your dive trip to the red sea went well Wookie.

looking forward to your comments on what you think of your magic filters.

Komodo wrote:


Thanks, just got back and still sorting kit and pics, but will try and do a trip report type thread later with lots of pics for you

Basically I wasn't impressed with the filters, they were OK for filming (my camera doesn't have custom white balance for film). When doing stills I found I got more grainy images with the filters and generally were not worth it. Just doing you custom white balance seems to be a better choice.

if you're still interested in getting a filter I'd definitely make sure you get one you can take on and off the camera underwater (especially if you have you strobe as it's one or the other like AlanticScuba says).

I am definitely going into the market for a strobe now though as I loved some of the macro stuff..

Wookie wrote:

The images were grainy due to the fact that a filter reduces the available light. Your camera will then adjust the ISO to compensate which makes the image more grainy. If you use a Wide Angle Lens (WAL) that would increase the available light and the images wouldn't be so grainy. Custom white balance compensates after the image has been taken rather than just blocking available light to the camera.

There are two types available, threaded or bayonet. Threaded lenses are harder to change underwater but doesn't restrict you options. I use 67mm and can swap lenses and filters between my stills and video cams as they are both 67mm. The Bayonet is exclusive to Inon which would then restrict you to anything Inon wants to produce. There's no bayonet fitting available for my video.


Soemone actually read what I wrote


Go for the best you can afford. Also go for one that will work as a slave i.e. with a fibre optic from your housing AS WELL as running TTL. That will mean the strobe will work if you upgrade your camera to any setup. I use 2 Sea & Sea strobes, a YS90(discontinued)& a YS110. The YS110 has a spotter light as well, always usefull in low light to know where your strobe is pointing.

Yes you could definatly tell the amount of light making it to the lense was reduced with the filter, it did work best in the brightest situations, but as soon as the light started to fade there were issues.

I have been looking at the WALs, but was a bit worried about the risk of damage getting it on and off the boat or in transit. Knowning me I'd scratch it and they are not cheap. Still tempting though and definatley on the wish list.

I have been looking at the Sea & Sea YS110a and the fuji Remora with fibre optic. Will come back to money as always though

Wookie wrote:

Don't worry about it, any scratches won't show when taking pics underwater. My fisheye is covered in scratches now, it's done a lot of dives. It stays in my rucksack until just before the dive and is always well wrapped in transit, hand luggage when flying. The scratches occur when the camera dangles while diving and hits a rock, I think all of them have happened in the UK.

Filters are never a good idea. I'm a video guy, but the principle is the same. White Balance! Every 12 feet is a new 'color space'. White light removes all depth of water, result is an image much like shallow water. We use blue tint filters ON THE LIGHT to defuse the white to the depth color, this way the now-blue light matches the ambient light.
If you use white light, white balance with it on. If you use a defuse, ditto.
Why green? Because you are in the second level of water depth; roughly 20-50 feet. Red is the first to fall away at 12 - 20 feet, very quickly and red hold the most detail. Green and blue remain with green dominant. Deeper and green falls away and only blue remains. 100 feet is very obvious. Still deeper blue is absorbed resulting in no light penetration.
For ultimate color use a color chart, then when you use Photoshop [Color correction for video] you have a reference point of what white 'was' at that depth. Select white from the slate to make an accurate color adjustment. Do the same with red and green.
I have a page on this in my FLOG. hd2o.tv/flog/color-water-cinematography-underwater/
Hope this is of value.
Paul

Thanks for the advice.

I noticed your camera costs a couple of dollars more then my camera.

I do have one question about professional photography. I always wondered if videos and photos taken by the pros always touched up when published, or are they mostly that good out of the camera.

The HVX200 does have tremendous 4:2:2 color range, but that doesn't mean a less expensive camera can't perform well. Pre-planning and preparation are paramount. So are tanks! LOL
I've been a graphics guy since 1992, started doing color correction with levels and curves. I have never seen a photo that didn't need touching. If not the actual image itself, subtle color adjustments to fit the look and feel of the project. Supermodel pictures are ALWAYS touched up; always. They're not that perfect. Now in video as a compositor the same is true. Rare to never are all clips in balance. Even the same camera from a different angle. Color (FinalCutPro) is one of my specialty services.
Nature has Her own idea of color, filters, and sfx. That's why we dig the challenge and come up wanting more!

Nice color correction!